C250 Problem: Dealership Update Edition

"Firewrx234" (firewrx234) 05/05/2016 at 16:29 • Filed to: C250, Problem

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I dropped the C250 off last night at the dealership and told them anything I could think of that might relate to the problems I’ve been having. They told me that they’d look into it today and get back with me. They then sent me on my way in their loaner vehicle (a 2016 C300 4Matic for those who are curious).

Well, not even 15 minutes ago I received a call from my service advisor. He told me that after 3 drives and no fault codes, they cannot get the car to act up. So, I asked him about the specific complaints:

The muffler has things on the inside rattling around. His response was that they couldn’t find the noise...frustrated, I moved on to the next comment.

The oil smells very pungently of fuel. His response was that although it smelled of oil, it didn’t seem significant. They performed a cylinder pressure test and all 4 passed.

The dipstick has rust on it and junk every time I check it. His response was that the dipstick got rust from condensation. I asked why it would have condensation and he said that was normal.

The car had a fault code when it was in here last and doesn’t hold it’s RPMs well in the morning. His response was that it had no fault codes currently and that it didn’t act up at all today.

So there you have it. My car is apparently an angel and fixes itself without the intervention of a mechanic. Straight from the advisor’s mouth.

I’m so beyond furious that I just want to yell! Reminder once again, this car only has 28k miles and shouldn’t have ANY of these problems if you asked me!

Good luck with whatever may be going on in your lives. Sorry to vent...time for some Cinco de Mayo margaritas...

yitznewton > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:36

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Hrm. That sounds, kinda crazy. I’m not a mechanic but your concerns sound legit to me and the responses sound like BS. I’d be looking for an indy second opinion.

wacopalypsenow > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:38

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1. What was the fault code?

2.Muffler rattling could be chunks of catalytic plate...eek

3. I don’t have rust per se, but I do have thick globs of yellow goop from condensation on a 16 year old Mercs oil cap if I only drive short distances for a while. If I drive long, the heat cycle evaporates it. This is normal I am told.

4.I am not an expert by any means...just interested

5. WHAT IS THE FAULT CODE!

6. Maybe the Cookie Monster Ely guy can help you on here

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:39

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Methinks you need a second opinion

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:39

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Is there another place you can take it to? Not my first option to ever say but every response above sounds...fishy

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:40

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How far of a ride is it to the next MB Dealer?

RyanFrew > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:41

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Regarding issue 3, I found this :

Apologies for the ridiculously late reply. After changing the oil numerous times, and inspecting oil samples from different areas of the engine, the dealer found that the dipstick tube was to blame.

The dipstick tube had somehow corroded inside, so when the dipstick was placed into the tube, it would pick up the nasty stuff seen in the above referenced pictures as it traveled.

They have no idea what caused the tube to corrode inside, but we checked the oil about 500~miles after the new tube was installed and the dipstick came out perfectly clean.

Only time will tell if the tube will corrode again. So far so good - I have 60,000 miles on this 2013 C250 now and its still running strong.

Firewrx234 > wacopalypsenow 05/05/2016 at 16:42

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Fault code was for a Cam Adjuster sensor being out of range. Seems reasonable... They told me my oil was “really dirty” and needed changed and could have caused the fault code originally. So I changed the oil and not even 200 miles later, it was acting up again.

Firewrx234 > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 05/05/2016 at 16:45

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If so, it’d have to be another Mercedes dealer because this is a Factory warranty issue.

Firewrx234 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 05/05/2016 at 16:46

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Not really sure but I’m thinking it’s another 20-30 minutes north which totals about 1 hour away from home.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:46

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Well, shit that complicates some things. Is there another one around? Heck, it’d be worth a little drive at this rTe

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:46

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Might be worth it so you don’t have to pay anything.

Firewrx234 > RyanFrew 05/05/2016 at 16:47

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So, if nothing else, replacing the dipstick tube would be a good idea...under warranty. That seems like an odd thing to have go wrong so early, in my opinion.

Firewrx234 > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 05/05/2016 at 16:48

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Yeah, I think the next closest is about 20-30 minutes further. Totaling about an hour from home.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:49

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What if you have some kind of injector issue? That could explain the idling problems when cold and the gas smell in the oil? Perhaps the extra fuel the ECU orders up when the engine isn’t warm is going somewhere it shouldn’t... that or there’s some kind of oil leak somewhere. Who knows, total BSing here

RyanFrew > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:50

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Definitely an odd thing to have to deal with. But the description in the OP in my link sounds exactly like what you’re encountering, on the same car, which speaks volumes.

Firewrx234 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 05/05/2016 at 16:50

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Yeah, I’m leaning that way if they push me out the door again. I even just asked if they did an oil sample test and he said they didn’t have any way to do it here so it would be based on their own visual/smell test. He says that fuel is pretty common in the oil which still confuses me, but would explain the rusting of a dipstick tube.

wacopalypsenow > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:53

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The Cam sensor makes sense for all your early morning RPM problems. Old school Merc CPS sensors cause the same problem and eventually leading to stalling when cold. Everything else is just so unconnected.....

facw > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:54

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I had a cam adjuster issue on my Volvo about 6 months after it went out of warranty (apparently not an uncommon problem on first-gen S40s). The dealer accused me of not changing the oil frequently enough so I assume it was dirty (I don’t drive much but always get the oil changed roughly every six months since I never hit the mileage targets).

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:54

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It obviously would be out-of-pocket, which would suck, but you could take it to an independent shop just to see if they could find anything. Assuming they do, you could then take the car and the report back to MB and tell them to fix it (and reimburse you for their dipshittery).

facw > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:56

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Going to another dealer sounds like a good idea. If you get stuck though, it might be worth paying an independent to diagnose (and document) so you can force them to take action.

Firewrx234 > Noah - Now with more boost. 05/05/2016 at 16:56

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Yeah, I’ve been struggling to find a good answer. I’ve gone every direction from headgasket to piston rings to high pressure fuel pump and everywhere in between. Obviously, this has led me nowhere.

Firewrx234 > wacopalypsenow 05/05/2016 at 16:57

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Yeah, I’ve struggled to connect the dots. And I’m sure I look like a loon to the Service advisor

Party-vi > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:57

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How long is your commute? You can get condensation on your dipstick and on your oil fill cap if your commute is not long enough to get the engine up to temperature long enough to burn off the condensation gathered in the oil system.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 16:58

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Sounding more and more like a confirmed lemon

Firewrx234 > haveacarortwoorthree2 05/05/2016 at 16:58

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I was hoping to avoid the out-of-pocket problem but we’ll see where this leads me.

Firewrx234 > Party-vi 05/05/2016 at 17:00

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My commute is 25-30 minutes 1-way every work day. And my house is a good 10 minutes from any grocery stores or restaurants so that’s what gets me.

Firewrx234 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/05/2016 at 17:00

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And yet, we can’t prove a single one of the issues...according to the people who don’t want to pay for it.

Rico > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 17:05

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I’m also in a 2016 loaner which I got today. Let’s compare ours!

They cheaped out on this loaner compared to the nearly loaded 2015 loaner I had last summer.

Polar white base model

base stereo, halogen lights, and base screen. The base stereo is awful compared to my w204 Harmon kardon and Burmeister is better than both.

The 2015 by comparison was Steel Grey and had Upgraded screen, Burmeister upgraded sound, Led Lights.

Re: your issues, I hate when this happens. I took my car in for a terrible rattle in the rear and they tried to tell me that I left something in the trunk that was rolling around. I knew I didn’t leave a damn thing in there but I didn’t argue with them, got the car back and left. I drive for the rest of the day and no rattle and boom the next morning rattled. It just is the luck of the draw.

Condensation isn’t unheard of on the dipstick I’ve read about it before online I just don’t remember where.

Brickman > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 17:16

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Your Merc has more problems than my 20 year old minivan! Something is not right. I never seen a rusty dip stick, other than one left outside in a junkyard. Fault codes should be stored, if not the PCM is not saving them or it find the variable the sensor needs and code goes away

Firewrx234 > Rico 05/05/2016 at 17:18

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2016 C300 4Matic in not the nice dark gray but a more silver gray

Burmeister sound, w/ Navi and LED lights. Not sure what other items are standard but rear camera, collision alert and side blind zone alert, and of course pano sunroof :) I love that. That may have been what ultimately sucked me into mine.

Re: Re: my issues: I wish I could have dropped it off on the day it was acting up but they didn’t have anything for me to drive for over a week and oddly enough, the car stopped acting like a completely power deprived car and started acting like a somewhat power deprived C250 that would be hard to tell from someone who is used to driving AMG cars all day.

Firewrx234 > Brickman 05/05/2016 at 17:20

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My guess is that they cleared them when they found them the first time to see if they’d come back. Whatever...it was an active code at the time too, so it shouldn’t have been able to be completely erased.

RallyWrench > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 17:27

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I’m not defending them in any way, but you’d be surprised how often I get a car in that has none of the symptoms a customer describes, or which the customer says cleared up on the way in. I believe them, but if it’s intermittent it’s hard to fix what’s not broken. It happens, and it’s very frustrating for all involved.

As to the muffler, I don’t recall if the C250 has a valve in the muffler for faster warmup and high-demand bypass, but those mechanisms often make rattling noises.

How long had the car gone on its previous service? Direct-Injected cars often heavily dilute their oil, particularly if turbocharged and if the factory intervals are heeded because they often well exceed 10,000 miles. This also adversely affects the cam adjusters, which are oil-pressure driven, and can clog with carbon deposits if oil intervals are excessive or the wrong oil is used. Servicing the car will not necessarily fix them if the contamination is bad enough. Usually, though, service intervals have to be almost completely ignored repeatedly for this to happen.

I’m curious to know what code was stored previously. If a cam adjuster is sticking when the car is cold and the oil is thicker, that could cause an RPM fluctuation.

Steve in Manhattan > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 17:44

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I would take it to an independent shop and have them look at it. I know - warranty and all, but you can take the evidence back to the dealer (or to another dealer) and get the car fixed.

Firewrx234 > RallyWrench 05/05/2016 at 18:25

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Oh, I believe that most of the issues aren’t showing up but the muffler sounds like pebbles bouncing around on the intake side of the muffler (I checked and there is not shielding there). And as far as the service intervals go since I’ve had it first one was done at the dealership before I bought it. The second one was done about 7k miles in, the third one (this is the one they requested be done) was about 4k miles in, and now it only has about 600 miles on it since the last one. The car keeps resetting and saying it’s good for 10k miles in between but that makes me uneasy. And apparently rightfully so.

The cam adjuster position sensor was the code that was there, but is no longer.

hubert07 > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 18:27

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I’m so tired of this. I don’t work on or for Mercedes but I am a service advisor at a fairly large dealership in a major metropolitan area.

Fact: We want nothing more than for there to be something wrong with your car. Fact: We get paid when we fix cars.

Issues you think are problems may very well inherent to the vehicle design, choice of materials by the manufacturer and a number of different things. Engineers will tell you everything is a tradeoff with the design of the vehicle.

I realize I sound condescending, and I apologize, but give the guy a break, his livelihood is based on helping you.

Chasaboo > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 18:36

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Let me guess, this is a German car. Am I right?

Firewrx234 > hubert07 05/05/2016 at 18:40

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I assure you, I understand his job and that he wants to work. However, I brought in the car last time and they said that my problems were “really dirty” oil that had been changed Well within the interval and was not “due” for another oil change for about another 5-6k miles. It had the problems then and they admit that. But now they say that it isn’t acting up (which I believe). The part that gets me is that they don’t hear the muffler...that is just laziness because it is there EVERY time I start my car and drive it. That one pisses me off.

I trust that he wants to fix the issue, I just wish he didn’t come off as condescending when he talked to me and didn’t say that he has no way of doing an oil sample test when I could literally walk around the corner and get one done near my work. He acts like it’s such a chore that it’s so crazy of me to suggest it. He literally said that their test is a visual and smell test and it seems alright. And that’s after he said that my oil does smell a lot like fuel. Just seems a little backwards to me that one of the simplest clues could be determined with a $15 test. If need be I’ll go do it myself when I get the car back. It’s just frustrating.

I’m sure you’re a good advisor but I just wish he seemed like he was trying to help me. A little bit of sympathy/empathy/emotion (in any way, shape or form) goes a long way.

Firewrx234 > Chasaboo 05/05/2016 at 18:41

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2012 Mercedes-Benz C250

Rico > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 18:54

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I have to wonder if you got bad gas man, that's kind of what it sounds like.

Nick Has an Exocet > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 18:55

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Send an oil sample for an independent 3rd party test. It will probably cost you less than the time you spend arguing with the dealer service folks.

BJ > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 19:55

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Sounds frustrating. My only tip for the visual/audio problems is to take video. Next cold start, film the crank and start plus the poor idle. Go outside and film the rattle of the exhaust from near and far.

And in general, a notepad in the car can be handy. Every time a problem occurs, note the date, time, annd conditions: outside temp, weather (dry/rain) and start type (cold/warm/hot). This may help reveal a pattern.

Renescent > Firewrx234 05/05/2016 at 19:59

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I’d send an oil sample to Blackstone.

I’d have the dealership keep the car over night and have them cold start it in the AM.

Sorry you’re having these issues, there are 3 MB’s in my family (R350, 350CLK, and my AMG) and, outside of general maintenance, they’ve been trouble free and rather brilliant.

Firewrx234 > Rico 05/05/2016 at 23:29

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It would make sense if it hadn't been going on for the last couple months

Firewrx234 > BJ 05/05/2016 at 23:30

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Not a bad idea, thanks!

Firewrx234 > Renescent 05/05/2016 at 23:32

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I be heard similar stories which is why I didn’t hesitate jumping on a 15k mile ‘12 last July. Let's hope I can get this resolved somewhat quickly.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Firewrx234 05/06/2016 at 01:43

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Message sent. Also I can look up previous fault codes if they’re following policy, as well as review any warranty claims they’ve made on your car. Basically, I might be able to diagnose this remotely based on what you’ve told me and any information saved.

BJ > Firewrx234 05/06/2016 at 07:15

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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Firewrx234 05/06/2016 at 09:30

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Yeah I’ve changed a lot of oil and never smelled gas in it before. Granted I’ve never owned a benz but you would think gas getting to the oil would be a bad thing.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Firewrx234 05/06/2016 at 11:15

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“His response was that they couldn’t find the noise”

“His response was that although it smelled of oil, it didn’t seem significant.”

My guess is either he magically became deaf/blind/dumb OR they never actually did the drives... or the drives were so short and cursory, that it was bullshit. OR... they started it up when it was already somewhat warm and not when it was truly cold or not in the same circumstances that cause the problem to appear.

Regarding condensation... that will happen if the car is driven short distances or in increments of less than 15 minutes regularly. And it would be more pronounced in cold weather.

I agree with Renescent that you should send an oil sample to Blackstone and that the car should be kept at the dealer overnight so they can see how it is when a fully cold start is done.

I also think you should make video recordings of the problem happening, record the time, date and exact circumstances the problems happen... including the temp outside and such as ‘starting it first thing in the morning’.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Renescent 05/06/2016 at 11:20

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The latest C-Class, which was newly redesigned for the 2015 model year, apparently is having some teething issues. At least that’s what the data from Consumer Reports and Edmonds suggests.

http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/…

http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/…

Firewrx234 > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 05/06/2016 at 12:00

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I agree with what you have to say. My only addition would be that my drive to work is about 30 minutes one way every work day.

I guess we’ll see what they have to say this afternoon.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Firewrx234 05/06/2016 at 12:52

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Hmmm... rust on the dipstick even with a 30 minutes of driving twice a day... could be coolant getting into the oil. Does the oil look milky?

Either way, get an oil analysis done.

Firewrx234 > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 05/06/2016 at 13:22

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There's a place right around the corner from my work that can do it for under $15 so I'll do that next week when I get a chance. Oil doesn't look milky but I've heard that could also not look milky due to synthetic oils and coolant not reacting the same way.